Would it be dangerous to start a political thread?

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Welshineire
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PostWelshineire on Tue May 30, 2017 8:16 pm

Start a political thread ? Given that football talk will be purely speculative at the moment.


Last edited by Rhys on Tue May 30, 2017 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Updated topic title -Rhys)

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PostArkay Dubya on Tue May 30, 2017 8:55 pm

Go for it!
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PostWelshineire on Tue May 30, 2017 9:57 pm

Ok. Firstly, I certainly wouldn't ask or expect people to divulge their political allegiances here. I have lived in Ireland for the past 12 years but still have family in Cardiff and visit 2 or 3 times a year, so naturally enough I have an interest in welsh and uk politics. I am surprised by the rise in Tory support there, and whilst I aknowledge that Jeremy might not be a natural leader elect, I do think the media have done him a disservice in the current campaign. The last 2 U.K. Elections that I voted in, I voted plaid, with little effect really, and I wonder why it is that most Welsh people, particularly labour supporters would turn towards the Torries rather than plaid, the party is pro-Wales, not all about the Welsh speakers, and is left of centre. Just looking for opinions.

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PostRhys on Tue May 30, 2017 11:45 pm

I'm just going to put this out there...please don't hate me. 

For a long time I have been a Conservative supporter - I believe in the general principal of living within your means. I accepted austerity on the basis that we were spending as a Nation well beyond what we could afford. I supported the Conservative drive to lower capital gains tax as I believed that increased employment levels (currently at record levels) would bring a windfall of tax receipts.  Also, through this lens, most cuts could be justified for me - as long the most vulnerable would be protected. Basically, the promise of balancing the books, during a time where our national credit rating was at risk furthering our debt levels and interest owed, seemed the right thing to pursue. 

However...

Upon the publication of Labour's manifesto, they have shown me that there is a different way to deal with this issue. Although most of the content is not new, there are some really innovative ideas such as the national investment bank that I really like. I also realise that social justice is more important to me than GDP (although social justice is harder with a weak economy, on this point instill agree with the Tories)

Although I do not believe Labour would be able to raise as much tax as they think, as a result they would not be able to deliver on everything that they promise, I have become enlightened to the fact that austerity is not the only way out this mess. 

On top of this the Tory manifesto is a disaster. 

I currently find myself a confused floating voter. 

I've really warmed to Corbyn, I love their manifesto but I really dislike his team. Diane Abbot would be a nightmare as home secretary. 

So currently, I'm not sure how I'll vote for the first time since I have been old enough to vote!
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PostWelshineire on Wed May 31, 2017 12:10 am

It's nice to hear someone speak who has taken the time to look at and analyse the proposed manifestos. Political allegiances should not be set in stone. The merits of candidates and leaders should be evaluated, and see how it' sits with your ethos and conscience. Whatever about Jeremy's leadership qualities, he does come across as a genuine man with a social conscience, which is not something I feel he shares with many of his colleagues, whatever banner they fly. I am looking forward to result night, no doubt there will be a few surprises.

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PostCyncoedslumdog on Wed May 31, 2017 12:38 am

Labour have produced some sensible looking policies in their goodie bag manifesto but today's hopeless Corbyn interview - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2017-40091454/jeremy-corbyn-stumbles-over-childcare-figures-on-woman-s-hour has replicated the previous clueless performances by Diane Abbott (Home secretary - aaaargh) and Angela Raynor
Allied to them are the horrible McDonnell as Deputy and their manifesto mastermind Andrew Fisher who was previously suspended for supporting anarchist group Class War against the Labour Party. We've also got 'White van man hater' Emily Thornberry on their front bench with the unspeakable Len McCluskey pulling strings in the background.
With such incompetence it was hardly surprising that the Tories started off with a 24 point lead but their cluelessness in not simply producing a bland manifesto and allowing Labour to cut their own throats has seen their lead whittled down thanks to the 'dementia tax' and other daft stuff such as a free vote on ludicrous fox hunting.
Lib Dems, UKIP and Green can be dismissed as irrelevant so the choice boils down to the aforementioned bunch of opposing clowns.
Sadly, therefore, it has to be the Tories for me as the thought of Corbyn and Abbott representing us in Brexit negotiations is too awful to contemplate. Also, Corbyn's previous IRA sympathies and previous invites to Parliament for Hamas and Fatah makes him unworthy of the position of PM.
It would be so different if David Milliband and Hilary Benn were in charge of Labour instead of the current buffoons.
p.s. Corbyn interviewer Emma Barnett is now receiving abuse on social media from Corbyn supporters including accusations of being a Zionist. Sums up the people who have taken over the labour party.
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PostTDA on Wed May 31, 2017 2:20 am

Although resident in France, we maintain the right to vote in a Scottish constituency. There we have to contend with the abhorrent Nicola "helmet head" Sturgeon and her "independence at any cost" band of disciples of the Prophet Salmond.

Whereas many free thinking Scots are happy to let the SNP be a strong voice at Westminster, they are not so sure about trusting them with full independence and in particular, all of the ramifications for an independent Scotland post-Brexit.

The vote in Scotland will be fascinating. Labour are already dead in the water there and I have a feeling that the Conservatives may spring a few surprise results that might make all the difference.
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PostWelshineire on Wed May 31, 2017 4:35 am

Oh I think there could be plenty of surprises in this election. I think Theresa May has been a little unsettled by events of the last 10 days, the polls certainly seem to be closing in a way that I'm sure she didn't anticipate. I think there are issues surrounding some of her cabinet, particularly Boris and Amber Rudd. Jeremy is marmite, I think for all the appeal he has with new young voters, there are many older voters that have no faith in his abilities to negotiate over brexit. And a leader that doesn't have the confidence of his MP's ? This has left him with a cabinet that have huge question marks over them. The SNP will no doubt continue to hold almost all the aces north of the border, though I suspect they may lose maybe half a dozen seats, it will mean that their specific Scottish needs will be heard. And this is why I wish Plaid had more support if only in the Welsh assembly. Labour and the Tories will always see Wales as an also needs, easy to say I know when I'm living abroad. All will become clear.

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PostTyrion Tannister on Wed May 31, 2017 8:25 pm

I'm an NHS worker - I kind of have no choice but to vote Labour, frankly. Beyond that, I'm also strongly against the internet surveillance laws May is slipping in without barely a vote, as well as the fact she seems to turn into a stuttering mess everytime she's challenged on frankly anything.

Must admit though, of the manifestos I think the Lib Dems comes out my personal favourite. Open and honest with taxation, a clear explanation of how they will afford everything they promise, illegal drug laws relaxed (not a user, but legalising cannabis just makes sense frankly). I just know they have no chance of winning - a vote for anyone but labour is a vote for the conservatives this time around, unfortunately.
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PostSlimfrog's Son™ on Wed May 31, 2017 8:57 pm

Red614 wrote:I'm an NHS worker - I kind of have no choice but to vote Labour, frankly. Beyond that, I'm also strongly against the internet surveillance laws May is slipping in without barely a vote, as well as the fact she seems to turn into a stuttering mess everytime she's challenged on frankly anything.

Must admit though, of the manifestos I think the Lib Dems comes out my personal favourite. Open and honest with taxation, a clear explanation of how they will afford everything they promise, illegal drug laws relaxed (not a user, but legalising cannabis just makes sense frankly). I just know they have no chance of winning - a vote for anyone but labour is a vote for the conservatives this time around, unfortunately.

Aren't the Lib Dems anti-Semitic and homophobic? Or is that just their leader?
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PostTyrion Tannister on Wed May 31, 2017 9:46 pm

Eh, he's religious - kinda comes with the territory Wink

Seriously though, I think it's a hitjob nearing the same level that corbyn has suffered. Plenty of 'he refused to confirm gay marriage is acceptable!' when actually he just didn't answer. The BBC have been shameful for that ever since the Brexit saga.

The Lib Dems actually make more mention of LGBT rights in their manifesto than any other major party.
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PostTDA on Wed May 31, 2017 9:56 pm

There is a massive, massive rethink needed on the future of the NHS and how it is funded. It's a political hot cake that no-one wants to mention at election time.

I've mentioned it before, but living in France where the services are provided on a pay as you go basis, covered by a partial State refund and private insurance for any balance (if you want) is a tremendous incentive to only use the service when really necessary. There are also stringent rules on who qualifies in the first place.
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PostTyrion Tannister on Wed May 31, 2017 10:49 pm

The claim we can't afford the NHS is a myth. It's what, a few billion short of what it would currently need to run sufficiently? We lose more than that in tax exploitation every year. If it needs more, I don't see many complaining if there is a 2% income tax increase but with it directly going into the NHS.

Then there's all that Brexit money we were promised, that will sort it nicely. Wait...
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PostTDA on Wed May 31, 2017 11:00 pm

Red614 wrote:The claim we can't afford the NHS is a myth. It's what, a few billion short of what it would currently need to run sufficiently? We lose more than that in tax exploitation every year. If it needs more, I don't see many complaining if there is a 2% income tax increase but with it directly going into the NHS.

Then there's all that Brexit money we were promised, that will sort it nicely. Wait...

Rather than pouring more money into the black hole that it is, the approach perhaps should be to create less or at least limit demand on the NHS. Too many taking out, not enough putting in, but that's the way of the UK ........

As a UK tax payer, I don't want to be paying any more and I wouldn't be confident of any tax increase being used as you suggest, particularly by the Labour Party.

On the other hand, I have no problem with paying as I go for the health services my family needs and receives.
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PostSlimfrog's Son™ on Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:05 am

TDA wrote:There is a massive, massive rethink needed on the future of the NHS and how it is funded.  It's a political hot cake that no-one wants to mention at election time.  

I've mentioned it before, but living in France where the services are provided on a pay as you go basis, covered by a partial State refund and private insurance for any balance (if you want) is a tremendous incentive to only use the service when really necessary.  There are also stringent rules on who qualifies in the first place.



There's a reason France has the best healthcare system in the world so to me there is no shame in creating a similar, if not identical, system. I think France spend less than 1% more of their GDP on healthcare even though Britain's GDP is higher so we could do it.
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